>Dr. Ewan Jackson" wrote [30 August 2001]

>

> Phil <> wrote in message

news:<>... > > "Dr. Ewan Jackson" wrote:

> > >

> > > Phil <> wrote in message

news:<>... > > > > I don't care what they suffered in Afghanistan.

> > >

> > > And this sentence says all we need to know about you.

> >

> > Who are "we"?. how many people fit into a phone box?. I don't care what

> > they suffered. I don't want them here.

>

> You could have been born in Afghanistan and ended up on that boat.

But I wasn't. What an illogical argument "Dr". I could have also been born into the English royal family. But I wasn't. You seem to use this "guilt" argument so favoured by the Catholics. That's the luck of the draw. >

> You would have had zero say in the circumstances into which you were born,

> and there would be a heartless aussie bastard saying the same kind of

> stuff you just said.

>

> How would you feel?

I feel fine. It's a pity I wasn't born in Afghanistan, but I wasn't. >

> > >

> > > > Their problem, their

> > > > country. The north of Afghanistan is controlled by a group opposed

to > > > > the Taliban. They can go and join this group and overthrow the

Taliban. > > >

> > > Exactly how easy do you think this is? You know nothing at all about

> > > the Northern Alliance and the civil war that is going on.

> >

> > Gee, they knew how to band together to fight the Soviet Union. At least

> > 2 million hiding in Pakistan. That makes at least 1 million soldiers to

> > fight the Taliban. And you know about the civil war? or did you come

> > across it in one of your tutorials.

>

> I am very familiar with the situation. If you knew a bit more about me

> you'd know why.

Do tell. Explain why they wont die for their country. Explain why if they are fleeing the Taliban, they don't join the North to send the Taliban back to their religious schools in Pakistan. The English suffered injustices and Cromwell appeared ; the French suffered injustices and the French Revolution occurred ; the Greeks suffered injustices and the Ottomans disappeared. What's so special about Afghanistan? >

> > >

> > > > Their country, their problem. And knock off this "cold hearted"

shit. > > > > That's not the way to make policy. It's not a principle, or a dogma.

> > >

> > > The world is "one".

> >

> > Only for the loonies of the world. The One World Government people.

>

> Where did I profess to be in favour of "one world government". Please

cite the > post.

Your quote: "The world is "one"".

> The point I was making evidently hasn't penetrated your intellect.

> The distribution of wealth in this world is grossly uneven. The 5 richest

> men in the world have more money than the 50 poorest countries. Australia

> is extremely wealthy in comparison to all third and second (and some

first) world > nations.

So what? The World Bank has distributed about USD$450 billion in 20 years to Third World countries. Their leaders spent this money on shopping trips to Harrods, schooling for their children in the US and UK and weapons. Nobody forced them to. Bill gates earned his money ; I have no problem with that. I would hazard a guess and say that I would earn twice what you do. Should I give you half of my income to compensate you for working in an academic sinecure?. Are you are Marxist? a Leninist? Please make some sense here "Dr". >

> Given the extremely priveleged situation Aussies were born into, we have

more than > sufficient resources to handle the refugees.

To reiterate, we do not. There are pressing social problems in this country without introducing more.

> Our government just throws money

> around on many things that are not essential. OTOH, this refugee crisis

is > literally a matter of life and death.

In your opinion. They are safe in the refugee camps in Peshawar. The UN provides aid to Pakistan to support them. >

> > > There are no "countries" except in the minds of people.

> >

> > Drop some acid at this point "Dr"?

>

> The notion that countries, and indeed economies, are actually

> abstract concepts that exist in people's minds is evidently too

> complicated for you to grasp.

I'll accept that economies are "one". We have been in the process of globalisation since the 1500s. When the US stock market collapsed in 1929, Australia went under as well. However, you forget nationalism. This socialist policy of open borders will eventually collapse under the weight of nationalism. >

> > > You take for granted all the creature comforts you are

> > > accustomed to. You are even in the 1% of the world's population

> > > who have their own personal computer. You take it all for granted.

> >

> > I take nothing for granted.

>

> Good. Then perhaps you can extend your hand to people who

> HAVE nothing to TAKE for granted.

Their problem. Australia began with nothing. Holland has half Australia's population and a greater GNP. So has Sweden. The Congo has enormous wealth and incredible poverty. Same with Nigeria. Why can't they get their act together? >

> > >

> > > You can choose to shut yourself off from the rest of the world,

> > > as Mr. Howard has done, and refuse to involve yourself in the

> > > serious problems of desperate people who came from war-torn countries.

> >

> > Their problems, their countries. All through Western European history,

> > millions have been killed. We learnt our lessons. So can they.

>

> What do you mean "we"? It wasn't "you" who was there "all through Western

> European history". That wasn't your experience. And yet you presume to

> take credit for this alleged "lesson". There is an astonishing lack

> of logic in your debate.

No, I'm not 400 years old. I think your prejudices blind you to my logic. >

> > > But you are speaking from a position of comfort. You have never

> > > known the horrors of the Taliban.

> >

> > Nope, and I don't intend to.

> >

> > > You have never starved half to

> > > death or lived in fear of your life. And yet you presume to tell

> > > other people who have these experiences "tough luck, go home".

> > > What you have just told me meets the definition of "cold hearted".

> >

> > Actually I have starved half to death, and lived in fear of my life.

> > When I was a student and my TEAS ran out, I found out about starving. Or

> > looking for a squat to live in etc etc etc. The same thing is happening

> > now in Australia. People on the dole get penalised by losing it for two

> > months, then they lose their houses, no food, etc etc etc. However, I'm

> > supposed to feel sorry for Afghans, Iranians and Iraqis economic

> > refugees.

>

> I would suggest that even though you found yourself (allegedly) in dire

> circumstances, the experience of the Afghans has been far worse. I

suggest > you familiarise yourself with Taliban regime before shooting your mouth

off > and comparing yourself to an Afghani refugee. Making this comparison

> is an outrage.

Read my post. I'm not comparing myself to Afghans. I am familiar with the Taliban. I also know my personality, and if I were an Afghan, I would be fighting them now, or be dead. >

> > I think your priorities are way off "Dr". It costs $40,000 per

> > annum per refugee in a detention camp. Someone on the dole gets about

> > $8,000. That is injustice.

>

> And yet you are unable to cite a source for your "figures". How strange.

Dept of Immigration website. Also quoted by Ruddock. >

> > > You did not choose to be born in a wealthy country like Australia.

> > > It was just the luck of the draw. You could be a lot more grateful

> > > and humane, and a lot less of cunt.

> >

> > In the mid-90s, a certain class of drug called SSRIs were released

> > (Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors). Commonly called

> > anti-depressants. Take them. You seem to be suffering from some sort of

> > anxiety.

>

> Actually depression and anxiety disorders are not a laughing matter.

Didn't say they were "Dr".

> Don't

> talk about things you know nothing about. You are now wandering into my

> professional field of expertise and I can easily rip you to shreds if you

> make any ignorant remarks in relation to psychiatry.

Are you are Political Scientist Psychiatrist? Is there such a thing? >

> > Yes there are lots of poor people in the world. You can't do

> > anything about them alas. However, if you look outside your own window

> > you will see greater poverty. So lets fix our own problems first, and

> > worry about the Afghans on another occasion. As I said above, $40,000

> > will provide a doctor for an Aboriginal community.

>

> Cite a source for that figure, liar.

I'm not kidding about the $40,000 per refugee per annum. See above and do some academic research. You can't accept the truth get out of your academic sinecure and see the real "world" in this country. So far this week, in WA a 13 year old girl charged with prostitution ; a six year old girl in Vic abandoned by her mother and found dead ; hundreds of homeless because of Centerlink punishment rules ; the Salvation Army's resources stretched to their limits, and not because of refugees, et al. And you want me to care about Iranians, Iraqis and Afghans.