From: "Ken Smith" <>
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question to true believers.


> Barry OGrady <> writes:
>
> >On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:03:44 -0800, Sean McHugh <>
wrote:
>
> >>
> >>
> >>Paul Mossman wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes isnt it a shame - that someone so bitter and twisted is allowed to
> >>> teach.
> >>>
> >>> So what do you teach Barry? Bachelor of Atheism? Unbelief? Barrys'
Truth?
> >>> LOL! One of these days Id love to hear your explanation for how the
elements
> >>> came to be..... of course it wasnt the big bang that caused them -
cause
> >>> they were already around (well some anyway.... otherwise what caused
the big
> >>> bang?)
> >>>
> >>> Go on Bazza - enlighten us with your eternal wisdom. Ohh wait there -
Only
> >>> God has that! Dear me.....
> >>
> >>1. Looking for a cause for the existence of elements for the big bang
> >>incorrectly assumes a period before the big bang.
>
> >My understanding is that scientists don't know what happened in the
period
> >before the big bang. The big bang does have evidence for it, but to say
that
> >there was an infinite period of nothingness and then suddenly, from
literally
> >nothing came an infinite amount of matter, takes as much to believe as
does
> >the idea that an infinite being always existed then out of the blue
decided to
> >create.
>
> Not quite correct.
> The universe, as we know it, came into existence at the big-bang.
> But "the universe as we know it" includes the concept of time.
> Both time and space came into existence at the big bang.
> So the concept of "before the big bang" doesn't make scientific sense.
>
> I hope that muddies the waters enough.
>
> Of course, Augustine said the same sort of things around AD 400 in a
> number of places in his writings.
>
> >I think we should face the fact that none of us know the answer.
>
> >>2. Your argument appears to be, that everything that exists required a
cause.
> >>OK, then please tell us the cause of God. Note that a lack of specific
knowledge
> >>on _your_ part should be dismissed with the same ease that you
demonstrate.
> >>
> >>
> >>Best Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>Sean McHugh
>
>
> >-Barry
> >========
> >Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barryog
> >Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
> >Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
>
> Salaam,
> Ken Smith
>
> --
> Dr Ken Smith - Christian, husband, unpaid mathematician, skeptic, ...
>    `If you were going to make a ghost trap, how would you set about it?
>     - particularly if you had not even a small ghost to practice on.'
> Anonymous scientist, in "The Kraken Wakes"