After the Bombs: Being Muslim in Australia Sunday 7 August 2005

Summary

As Muslims in Australia feel pressure to articulate Islam's distance from terrorist acts, Encounter listens to visiting Islamic figures urging them to be confident and to engage in Australian society.

Transcript

Margaret Coffey: On ABC Radio National time now for Encounter.

Extract from FAMSY conference, Sydney: ..and believe in Allah almighty. Call for the good and prevent from which is bad . this is our job description as being a true Muslim..calling for the good .. preserve the true image of Islam . especially in a time when this image is being changed into the wrong and a false image, especially in a time when .

Extract from FAMSY conference, Sydney: .After September 11 the pressures on our community have been tremendous and we must try to address the frustrations that our Muslim youth are suffering and we must provide to them channels for them to vent this frustration, this anger that they have, we cannot leave them .

Margaret Coffey: Hello, I'm Margaret Coffey with an Encounter that lends an ear to a religious community clearly under enormous social and political pressure and searching for words to frame a response .

Extract from FAMSY conference, Sydney: All of a sudden the Muslim community and its leadership are expected to be experts. We are supposed to know why these things are happening. We are expected to be experts in knowing and identifying who these individuals are and then going and stopping and preventing it from happening ..

Margaret Coffey: In the week after the London bombs, Australian Muslim organisations hosted visiting speakers at scheduled events around the country where discussion took an inevitable turn.

Zahariah Mathews: My title in fact is 'Guiding Muslim Youth', and as a subtitle, 'How do we prevent their radicalisation?'

Margaret Coffey: The question for Muslims is of course how to respond to these pressures to articulate Islam's distance from terrorist acts and their commitment to this country's pluralist and democratic ethos. But before we go on to hear any of those discussions, it's useful to recall just how recently Muslims in this country have come to be thought of as, well, as Muslims.

Back in the 1980s, Michael Humphrey was researching for his PhD amongst Lebanese refugees who had settled in Sydney. He remembers that then the fact that these people were Muslim really only had meaning with reference to political division within the Lebanese civil war. It was their ethnicity that mattered most - and that their patterns of settlement echoed those of Greek and Yugoslav immigrants.

Michael Humphrey: A lot of the questions about Muslim identity was highly specific in ethnic terms. Muslim communities here, immigrant communities, were largely, initially largely, Turkish and then Lebanese - those two populations constitute the largest share of Muslim communities in Australia. The nature of these communities was being shaped by a social context which was you know de-industrialisation really. They confronted as refugee populations large-scale unemployment, like four to five times the national average. From the early 80s one could see the social, critical social issues that were present in those communities. So, until fairly recently, the questions about Muslim identity even though those communities would have identified with Middle Eastern events particularly and events relating to Islam, still the Muslim communities in Sydney were being talked about very much in ethnic terms. Even the national organisations such as the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, AFIC, had tensions within it over trying to create you know a kind of Australian Islam you could say and at the same time having to deal with the fact that the constituent members were really ethnic communities.

Margaret Coffey: The history of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils and its various constituent bodies is especially interesting in the light of the demands government and media are making of these organisations. The Federation is a lay organisation, not a religious body, its role is evolving, very much so under those post 9/11 pressures. It's essentially an advocacy group for Muslims, initiated back in the 1960s for very practical reasons.

Michael Humphrey: It was about involvement especially within the halal meat trade - so there were ritual questions and organising the processing of an aspect of trade with the Middle East - a question of the care and concern and addressing the organisation of the community rather than religious matters.

I mean it evolved gradually - competing organisations led to well we need to bureaucratise this, we need to put in some kind of larger framework so we can deal with less people and things become more orderly.

My experience of Muslim communities has been that they have been extremely defensive about what they see as constant critique and kind of negative press that they get. So there is a kind of defensiveness but also a tension because the government or even perhaps you know public opinion has imposed upon them that somehow they should be doing something about things, as if these kind of entities constituted a community, were representative, actually had control and authority. I think the idea of making the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils responsible for the words of or the sermons of clerics is a very optimistic national security policy. It is not that they don't want to be but in what way can they be.

Margaret Coffey: But that's what media and by implication government expect them to be. The fact is that state Islamic councils are made up of representatives of sectors of Muslim communities, rather than all Muslims. They don't represent all those Shi'a who came here as refugees from Iraq, for example, or Salafi organisations that have been so effective for some years now amongst students and young people generally. But then, neither the Federation nor the state Islamic councils have ever acknowledged directly that Islam is not a seamless garment. For whatever reasons, each party to the discussion has come to think in what you might call globalised terms: one religion, one culture, one organisation, one point of view. As Michael Humphrey explains, it's important to understand the shift that underlies Australian thinking - a shift away from thinking of people just as migrants and imagining their inclusion.

Michael Humphrey: We can look at the nature of the change of Islamic communities, the impact of political Islam nationally and internationally, but we also have to understand the changing relationship between the state and its citizens in a place like Australia but certainly in the West. So we have seen the shift from what I call diaspora Islam - you know the migrant Islam - in which at that time reconciliation or if you like multiculturalism and the possibility of creating a different shared future which was identity altering on both parties, to a situation now where the focus is on risk and threat - and the problem with that is that rather than integrating it's separating. We've shifted from a social imagination or a national imagination of inclusion to one of differentiation, identifying those who are suspicious. We have a situation where the risk is now integrated with ideas about national security and national security is in fact engaged in something - war on terror -which is no longer geographically located. I mean it's here and everywhere - that is very disturbing development not at all helpful in terms of imagining a coherent and cohesive national society or national identity.

Margaret Coffey: Sociologist Michael Humphrey on the way Australia's social imagination has shifted from imagining reconciliation, to evaluating the risk we represent to each other. I asked Michael Humphrey by the way what he would wish to research should he return now to that Sydney Lebanese community.

Michael Humphrey: I think the critical area is just what has happened to the youth and their expectations. I was actually talking to someone who I knew very well who came from a very large family from north Lebanon. I mean he was very Lebanese but he said to me I am Australian, I am Australian, I wouldn't go back to Lebanon, but my kids, they call themselves Lebanese. So there is a very strange shift in identity and the question of alienation, as if Lebanese Muslim in this case is a mark of their alienation rather than their incorporation and I think that that is an extremely important issue - maybe understand a little bit better why it is that people can be radicalised and so alienated within the midst of a society in which the level of alienation appears invisible to most people.

Margaret Coffey: On ABC Radio National this is Encounter where we will keep that shift from reconciliation to risk in mind as we listen to discussions in Muslim forums in the weeks immediately after the London bombs. But first ...

Extract from The World Today, 8/7/05: Sheikh Fehmi Naji El-Imam is the general secretary of the Board of Imams of Victoria and he told Natasha Simpson that some Muslims have been driven to violent acts because of the West's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. ..

Margaret Coffey: This explanation for terrorism is labelled the Jerusalem theory by a prominent British Muslim ..

Sheikh Fehmi: Attacking Iraq is the reason. Attacking Afghanistan is the reason. The case of Palestine ..

Natasha Simpson: So are you saying the actions of the West have driven some Muslims to this sort of action?

Sheikh Fehmi: It is, it is .

Abdal Hakim Murad: The Jerusalem theory holds that the West deals so unfairly with the Muslim word .. regrettable but predictable that extreme margin should take a pot at the west out of frustration and desire for revenge. The Riyadh theory holds that this is in fact all of this is a religious movement, explaining itself religiously and ultimately Islamically and hence it has to be interpreted as a theological aberration

Margaret Coffey: Abdal Hakim Murad is chair of the Muslim Academic Trust in Britain and Friday preacher at the Cambridge Mosque. He was travelling in South East Asia when I spoke to him but the line was so bad I'm afraid I have to paraphrase. The Jerusalem theory holds that the West deals so unfairly with the Muslim world that it is regrettable but predictable that an extreme margin should strike at the West out of frustration and desire for revenge. The theory includes but goes beyond issues like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. The Jerusalem theory is one of two major explanations proffered by Muslim leaders of events like the London bombings.

Zahariah Mathews: A report was released last week where to date 25, 000 Iraqi civilians have been killed. This perhaps indicates how cheap Muslim blood has become. Another issue is Western society's Islamophobia and anti-Muslim rhetoric where we as Muslim migrants are now targeted and scapegoated and even alienated. Another issue is the counter-terrorism legislation and laws that have been introduced, targeting mostly the Muslim community.

Another issue that has been highlighted with the London bombing is material deprivation. This is not so much a problem in Australia with our good social and welfare system, although some jobs now are not available to Muslims, in Australia. Some jobs have become unavailable to Muslims, regardless of your qualifications or your capabilities or your skills. Lack of Muslim representation in the media and government and this has translated into a lack of support and acceptance, hampering our successful integration into the society, despite our efforts. Lack of effective political channels through which we can express ourselves, our ideas and aspirations. Identity crisis issues and the pressures after September 11 on the Muslim community - we cannot underestimate it. Those pressures have been tremendous and this has perhaps resulted in the community developing a siege mentality. And lastly radical elements, and this is something we cannot deny., radical elements within the community exploiting the frustrations of Muslim youth, preaching hatred and promoting extremism and fascism.

Margaret Coffey: Zahariah Matthews invoking the Jerusalem theory at the recent conference of FAMSY or the Federation of Australian Muslim Students and Youth. An alternative major explanation Abdal Hakim Murad dubs the Riyadh theory. This holds that terrorism is a religious movement explaining itself religiously and ultimately Islamically. It has to be interpreted as a theological aberration and the solution has to be an Islamic religious solution. Sociological explanations outline circumstances, he said, and suggest psychology, but they cannot disclose the religious underpinnings or offer a counter-argument. But the fact is, he goes on to say, that the young people who are drawn to acts of terrorism are not listening to the traditional leaders. They are literally taking the scriptures into their own hands .. and that, he says, is a real crisis at the heart of the religion. The Islamic revival, he says, must be made to see that it is in crisis, and that its mental resources are insufficient to meet contemporary needs.

The question for this Encounter: How is the heart of Islam in Australia - the representative organisations - faring? What mental resources are they bringing to the needs of Australian Muslims? Are they invoking the Jerusalem theory or the Riyadh theory, or offering their members a more complex narrative?

Sound of crowd at University of Melbourne public lecture

Margaret Coffey: We're at the University of Melbourne at a gathering sponsored by the University and the Islamic Council of Victoria. The speaker is the recently elected president of the ICV, Malcolm Thomas.

Bismillah ar rahman ar rahim .. Assalamu' alaikum. Praise be to God the most merciful, the most beneficent. Salaam aleikum. Peace be upon you. On behalf of the Islamic council of Victoria I have great pleasure in welcoming our distinguished speaker Professor Jamal Badawi for tonight's lecture. This lecture is the first hopefully of many such collaborations by ICV with the University of Melbourne and the Centre for Studies of contemporary Islam. It is the aim of both organisations to further the public debate on issues relevant to Australia's unique multicultural society.

Muslims in the audience need no introduction concerning the credentials of Dr Badawi, but for non-Muslims I would like to suggest the following reference points. For the politically orientated members of the audience, Professor Badawi is a scholar in the calibre of Noam Chomsky, but not divisive as Chomsky, quite the reverse. For the scientifically orientated members of the audience, Professor Badawi has a depth of knowledge at a foundation level and the life experience of the late Sir Mark Oliphant. And for the natural science orientated members of the audience, Professor Badawi has the communication skills and mass education ability of David Attenborough. So this is the calibre of person we have here tonight. Thank you. (Applause)

Margaret Coffey: The subject of this encomium is Dr Jamal Badawi, a professor of management at St Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Dr Badawi is a prolific and popular writer whose works are well known amongst Muslims in Australia, not just in print - they're available also on the internet. Dr Badawi considered two questions in his presentation.

Jamal Badawi: What is the Islamic view of the Other? The second question that is pertinent to the topic, do the teachings of Islam sanction participation in the socio-political life in the communities where they are living and what are the guidelines for that participation? These are the two main questions that I hope to address and as briefly as possible.

Margaret Coffey: Dr Badawi's methodology is exegesis - he takes the Qur'an and unpacks it to address ubiquitously asked questions. On one occasion here, those questions were put by young people associated with the Werribee Mosque in Melbourne.

Young woman: Dr Badawi, given your experiences, what do you say when you hear with the recent wave of violence of Muslims being depicted in the same words, in the same phrases as Muslim terrorist, Islamist, Islamic terrorism. How do you respond to that?

Jamal Badawi: This is an unfortunate and offensive term. We know that acts of violence and crimes and terror has been committed and are being committed by people who come from a variety of faith backgrounds. Why should the term terrorism or criminality or violence be reserved for one particular religion selectively? Neither the faith nor the community of faith should be blamed or held responsible for the actions of a few, and that applies to all religions.

Young woman: There has been some acknowledgement such as recently by Tony Blair that in fact the vast majority of Muslims are decent and law-abiding members of society. They wonder however as to why the most dramatic recent acts of violence such as in London were committed by those who call themselves Muslims and in some cases in the name of Islam.

Jamal Badawi: Well the Crusaders called themselves Christians - do you know the song Onward Christian Soldiers?

But I must add one realistic point. It is not justification but it is an attempt to understand the mindset behind those actions, that again many people say, why are so many Muslims involved in that in several instances. I believe that in an atmosphere of oppression, injustice, killing of Muslims, many people do not talk in the media also the killing of 100,000 civilian Iraqis in the recent war, invasion of Iraq, nobody speaks about the many thousands of people killed in Afghanistan, nobody care very much about the Palestinian who are being killed and injured and dispossessed day and night. But when a few thousand or a few hundred in a powerful country are killed which is wrong that becomes a media interest day and night.

I'm saying that this could contribute a great deal to the perception which might have some reality that Muslims in the recent decades and particular recent years have been aggressed upon, their lives have no value, they have been killed right and left, they have been injured, they have been tortured in prisons, so from the standpoint of young Muslims in particular, seeing that oppression it could feed extremist interpretation or extremist understanding that might lead to the commission of actions. So that is why you have to deal with the problem at the very root, let us remove those injustices, let us deal with each other as equals, respecting each other rights and dignity, let us stop all this invasion under flimsy excuses, that would moderate people automatically

Margaret Coffey: On ABC Radio National you are listening to an exchange between a visiting Muslim scholar and young people associated with a local mosque.

Young man: If I may turn to some common misconceptions about Islam, what do you say to those who claim that this violence is a product of Islamic teaching about 'holy war'.

Jamal Badawi: Surprisingly it is a myth to say that there is any usage of the term 'holy war' in the Quran. "Holy War' is an English term. The Quran was revealed in Arabic and is still available to us in the original Arabic word as uttered by the Prophet 1400 years ago. I am willing to pay a million dollars to anyone who shows me a single verse in the entire Quran, A to Z, that use the term that is the equivalent of holy war. It is a huge myth.

But I think what people probably confuse, and it is a very bad confusion, is to equate the concept of jihad, a very noble, a very noble and comprehensive concept in Islam called jihad and they translate it automatically as 'holy war' and there is no connection whatsoever.

Margaret Coffey: Dr Jamal Badawi and he went on to explain that unlike 'holy war', jihad was a form of personal struggle of which there were three categories.

Jamal Badawi: Yes, there is also a third level of jihad in the battlefield and it is allowed only on one of two conditions. And let me even recite the translation meaning of the first one, and let you judge whether this is a bona fide legitimate self defence or not. It says 'fight in the way of God those who fight against you' - that is, initiate aggressions, unprovoked aggression against you - but then it continues, 'commit no aggression'. No apology for that. It is in our human fitrah - human need and nature - to defend ourselves when we are attacked. Secondly it says, 'fight until there is no oppression and religion belongs to God', which means the worst kind of oppression as it happened historically was to suppress Muslims who wanted to become Muslim, to even kill and harass those who accepted Islam, so any form of oppression has to be resisted and that is also quite natural.

But even then, if you have a legitimate cause like severe oppression or aggression that you have to resist and peaceful means fail, there are a number of qualifiers that I would like to answer that question with. Number one - the intention should be pure. It should only be in the cause of God, and the cause of God has been explained, no more. Secondly, that all peaceful means must be explored first before resorting. Thirdly, the Prophet of Islam made clear instruction that distinguished true jihad from acts of senseless indiscriminate violence or the so-called terrorism. He said you don't hurt a woman who is not fighting, a child, an old man, a clergy, a farmer who is minding his business, that is what we call today non-combatants.

Young woman: What do you say Dr Badawi to those who actually say, well jihad sanctions the killing of so-called infidels or non-Muslims, and there are those who even say it is a duty of Muslims to suppress other faiths and other beliefs?

Jamal Badawi: To put it bluntly, non-diplomatically, they are dead wrong. Does the Qur'an really say that Muslims are entitled to commit any act of violence against the kafirs or those who do not accept? Far from that! There is no single evidence of a single verse in the Qur'an, properly understood in its textual and historical context, that ever gives the Muslim permission to fight someone else on the sole basis that his religion is different. Not one.

It establishes two conditions for this kind and just treatment of anyone who is not a member of the Muslim community. First, that they should not fight Muslims to suppress their religion because they are Muslims, religious wars. Secondly, they should not commit gross injustices against Muslims like dispossessing them from their home, from their land, from their nation and as we find in many cases turning people into refugees in Diaspora. Not just small injustice, a major injustice of that nature. Are these too much to ask for? Are these not basic human rights of every human being irrespective of their ethnic or religious background? Not excessive.

Margaret Coffey: Dr Badawi's answer stopped short of applying his reading explicitly to contemporary circumstances around the world, but then nobody asked him to.

Young man: Dr Jamal Badawi is considered one of the world's foremost Islamic scholars.

Margaret Coffey: He is very popular obviously!

Young man: Yes ...

Margaret Coffey: It's clear that these young people valued Dr Badawi's answers. They were reassured about what they know from their own lives - that Islam is a religion of peace, and they were given the Quranic tools to underwrite this reading - but they were left in no doubt that Muslims are under oppression.

Young man: .there is a lot of media hype on a number of issues and what Dr Jamal Badawi helps us do is to make a thorough understanding, give us the scriptural evidence for the place of Islam. It gives a balanced approach to what is a very biased position for Islam and Muslims world-wide.

Margaret Coffey: To take up with Abdal Hakim Murad's critique, Dr Badawi's answers affirmed that Islam is a religion of peace by in the end resolutely turning the focus away from Islam. The website for Dr Badawi's Islamic Information Foundation publishes some interesting texts. A headline on the home page asks readers if they want to know the truth. A click brings up lengthy rebuttal of Christian claims about Jesus and two long-in-the-tooth curiosities of pseudo science proposing that the Qur'an as the ultimate scientific text, perfectly in conformity with modern science, unlike the Hebrew Bible. It's not an intellectually reassuring experience. Hesham Mobarek was one of the organisers of the FAMSY conference that featured Dr Badawi and I asked him how the speakers were selected.

Hesham Mobarek: Speaker selection generally is - we have got I guess a group of speakers that we have a look at, there is a sub-committee organised to discuss. We would like to bring overseas speakers, we have had quite a few speakers in the past, and we just have a look at the different speakers that have been to other conferences, there is other organisations overseas that they also would look at for example there is a group called FOSIS which is the representative organisation in the UK, and the likes of the Muslim Association of Britain and just get a bit of consultation and see who the speakers that we could select are.

Margaret Coffey: So there would be if you like a network of organisations where you feel you have some complementarity of viewpoint?

Hesham Mobarek: Absolutely, absolutely.

Margaret Coffey: So Anas Altikriti and Jamal Badawi.

Hesham Mobarek: That's correct.

Margaret Coffey: They are well known are they?

Hesham Mobarek: They are well known, probably Anas in more recent times becoming a lot more well known but Professor Jamal Badawi has been well known in the last two decades amongst the Muslim community.

Margaret Coffey: Hesham Mobarek of FAMSY, an umbrella organisation for Muslim student and youth organisations associated with the State Islamic Councils. Dr Jamal Badawi shared the platform at FAMSY events with Anas Altikriti, spokesperson for the Muslim Association of Britain.

Anas Altikriti: We are excellent in criticising ourselves, in fact we are masters at criticising ourselves and I think that is something we need to assess and I think it is a corner we need to turn. I would suggest to you this, that the Muslim communities throughout the West, particularly throughout the West, despite the pressures that have been piling on, on a daily basis for the past four years and would seem like they will be continuing due to events, I will propose .

Margaret Coffey: Anas Altikriti has risen to prominence in Britain as a key figure in mobilising Muslim support for the anti-war movement protesting Britain's involvement in Iraq. He was in Australia last year for example to conduct workshops with Muslim youth on how to deal with the media. Altikriti's organisation, the Muslim Association of Britain, has associations with the Islamist movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, indeed his father is head of the Muslim Brotherhood in Iraq, and that connection has been the basis for strong attacks on MAB. It may have been one of the reasons why the Muslim Association was not invited to join Prime Minister Tony Blair's summit of Muslim leaders held in response to the London bombings.

Hesham Mobarek: Well I'm not sure why they weren't invited. I am not quite sure what the British politics actually is in that. That is obviously a decision that you know Mr Blair has taken or the powers that be over there has taken and look I am not really at liberty to ask why.

Margaret Coffey: Were you curious, did you ask why?

Hesham Mobarek: It was .. I was curious but I .. we had a very, very busy schedule with Anas..

Margaret Coffey: Is there a sense perhaps that MAB is an overtly political organisation rather than a religious organisation, that it's agenda has to do with Iraq?

Hesham Mobarek: Well they are definitely a political organisation, I don't think their absolute agenda is to do with Iraq. I think they have been going well and truly before the Iraq issue and that is not their absolute agenda, no.

Margaret Coffey: Whatever about the Muslim Brotherhood's equivocal character in the eyes of its critics, Anas Altikriti and the Muslim Association of Britain have roundly condemned terrorism and the London bombings - and here they invoked the Jerusalem theory, but with a difference.

Anas Altikriti: Let that not bring you down brothers and sisters, let that not depress you, leave you in a state of despondency. Because you are way, way better than that. Despite the pressure being piled by the kind of discourse that is going around, demanding of you to explain yourself, justify yourself, apologise even. Despite that we stand clear and say we have nothing to apologise for, we are the best of the best and we can and will play our part in bringing about the best for the future of this country and its people. That is our role, these are our teachings.

Margaret Coffey: Anas Altikriti wasn't quite the drawcard FAMSY had hoped - there were competing events - but his message was a welcome confidence booster.

Announcer - Hesham Mobarek: We unfortunately have a lot more questions but unfortunately we have run out of time

Margaret Coffey: Thinking back to Michael Humphrey's comments about our social imagination, it was frankly distressing to hear from audience reaction just how far Australia has travelled from habits of imagining reconciliation towards evaluating the risk we represent to each other.

Woman: Lots of Muslims are being apologetic for being a Muslim and we feel like the society always make us feel guilty because we are a Muslim. Now I feel like you know I am part of the Australian society, I don't feel at all like I am responsible now or that I should apologise for anything. I am now, and before this conference, I am Australian. I am Australian, I have been in this country for 30 years, I am not new to this country. Even if some other people are new we are Australian. So we should share the others in our life, not in their life, in our life.

Margaret Coffey: What kind of life? For the activist Islam networked through this conference, the discussion was closed on at least some matters relevant to the Australian context. Men and women sat apart, and they observed the appropriate dress code.

Hesham Mobarek: I think it is well understood that hijab is part of the Muslim women's dress. Most of the people who are attending are Muslims and most Muslims would accept that they need to wear hijab, most Muslim women, but there is no such thing as forcing them to wear it. And as far as you say we had the separate seating, we did also have an area for those who wanted to sit together. We just find when you have a public lecture and people moving past each other, you know it makes it a little bit difficult to move in and out when you just have a whole theatre full of mixed people so it's more for comfort and respect.

Margaret Coffey: Why does it make it difficult?

Hesham Mobarek: Well there is not a lot of room to move past people and that direct contact makes some people feel a little bit uncomfortable and we have to respect those needs.

Margaret Coffey: Hesham Mobarek from FAMSY. The Islamic revival articulated for example through the Muslim Brotherhood represents an increasingly influential modernist Islam, attractive to middle-class educated people living in contemporary environments. Certainly, part of its attraction is its return to the sources, the Qur'an and the Hadith, and to the rules derived from the sources. Some point to its momentum towards democratic activism, others describe it as fundamentally secular and expedient. From the beginning its focus has been on moral reformation. .. on indeed risk. This form of Islamic revival may be growing, but according to Abdal Hakim Murad it has so far been remarkably unsuccessful.

Abdal Hakim Murad: I think that we have to recognise that because it is expressed in Islamic religious terms the solution has to be an Islamic religious solution.

Margaret Coffey: He points to the fact that in Egypt, where it was born, it has failed continuously for six decades. Rather than working towards spiritual change, he says, it is profoundly judgemental and works-oriented, fixated on visible manifestations of morality while failing to address the question of what God's revelation is for. It's theological nonsense, he says, to suggest that God's final concern is with people's ability to conform to a complex set of rules. Yet, visible manifestations of morality were very much at the centre of Anas Altikriti's message.

Anas Altikriti: I rejected the use of the word assimilation - I don't think that is something that I am looking for. Positive integration is a word that I would feel far more comfortable with. Why should I think that in order to become part of community or part of a society in which I live I have to do every single thing which that society does? I have many, many, many friends who are non-Muslim British people who do not drink and don't really care if whether they want to socialise in a bar or in a café or in a restaurant lobby. So if they one day propose that we go to a pub and I say well listen you know I don't really go to pubs they say well fine let's go to a café.

And to be honest, when we first started the anti-war movement in Britain, this was one of the things that a lot of our brothers and sisters raised - how could you, you know, sit with these people, how could you, you know they go to pubs, they do this, they do that, they live with each other without being married. But you have to think to yourself, I am in the business of trying to prevent a war to save lives.

But listen, the very first time we were invited, I was invited, the very first meeting I was invited to a pub. I was given an address, I went to the address, a hundred yards away I looked at it and it, it was a pub. I gave them a call and I said listen it turns out this is a pub. And they said, yes, and we are all here and waiting for you. I said well I wouldn't feel comfortable being there and I don't go into pubs. They said don't worry, you can have a coffee, you don't have to drink. I said I know I can have a coffee but I don't go into pubs. They said well would you be comfortable if we went into a side room away from the bar. I said I would rather not. We went to somewhere, a local café. We met there. From that moment onwards, not once, not once, were we ever again invited to a pub.

And, whenever they set the agenda, I have to say this, whenever they set the agenda, and we have quite a lot of meetings, they make sure to give me a call and to say can you tell us when the prayers are so that we know when to break. We're two Muslims out of eighteen, but everyone breaks when we have prayers, there aren't any ham or bacon in the food that we get, no-one drinks, no-one drinks, anyone who has brought a can of beer or anything, they consume it outside and then they come in, and for some reason no-one smokes a cigarette despite the fact that most of them do smoke!

Margaret Coffey: Anas Altikriti, addressing a conference of the Federation of Muslim Students and Youth, in the week after the London bombings. I asked Hesham Mobarek, one of the conference organisers, about his reaction to Anas Altikriti's story.

Hesham Mobarek: Yes, I think it is very, very important for us to be involved in the wider Australian community in all facets of life.

Margaret Coffey: You and I were both there I imagine in the theatre when he told a young woman who was worried about wearing the hijab while teaching in a state school that she should stand in front of the class and say to herself, 'I am the best there is, I have never drunk, never smoked, I live a good life, I live in a clean house.' Would you be happy for that advice to be repeated to that woman in front of the generality of Australians?

Hesham Mobarek: Yeah I mean, he's not, don't take it to mean that he is saying that means she is better but it was more trying to say to her, hey listen, I need to be confident, and not feel apologetic about the way I look, or feel, feel smaller in the eyes of other people. So I think it has to be taken with that sort of interpretation, not the interpretation I'm better than you and sort of changing, making people look, look at Islam as better than non-Muslims

Margaret Coffey: But you understand my point, that it sounds quite different if it is said in front of a whole mob of Australians?

Hesham Mobarek: Well it probably, yes, we probably could chose our words a little bit better and be careful not to give that perception. I think he was trying to deal with that specific question with that specific young lady to be able to give her that confidence to be able to fulfil her task without feeling uneasy about it. So that is really the way I look at it.

Margaret Coffey: Is that true Hesham, because his talk in Sydney last night was based entirely around that theme, telling people to think you are the best there is.

Hesham Mobarek: But isn't that, isn't that acceptable for any motivational speaker to be able to get up, to give the confidence to say, hey, you have to aspire to be the best that you possibly can. And that's the message that I took from him when he was talking about Muslim youth and the art of aspiration - he actually made the comment where he said you need to be able to in everything you do think about whether it is going to be in a positive sense rather than a negative sense.

Margaret Coffey: But you are the best there is because you don't drink, you don't smoke, you live a pure life and you live in a clean house?

Hesham Mobarek: But we are not being judgemental about it. If people want to drink, and smoke and so-called live in a dirty house, that's up to them.

Margaret Coffey: Do non-Muslims live in dirty houses?

Hesham Mobarek: No, no, not at all Margaret, that's not, that's not what he is trying to get across and I don't think that was the message that he was trying to get across.

Margaret Coffey: Well might you accept that there is a problem with that kind of language as a basis for approaching positive integration?

Hesham Mobarek: Well certainly we have to be very, very careful with the language we use and that is always, always a problem.

Margaret Coffey: Well, what other 'mental resources' - to use Abdal Hakim Murad's phrase - were made available to Australian Muslims in recent weeks? In the week after the London bombs, Dr Jamal Badawi and Anas Altikriti were not the only visiting Muslim speakers in town.

Yusuf Estes: Bismillah you are listening to Islam Tomorrow, broadcasting almost live today all the way from Sydney. And that is in Australia. We are here in the land down under, the largest island in the world. Some people call it a continent but it is surrounded on all sides by wawa. There is water everywhere, everywhere. And, by the way, this is your host Yusuf Estes, national Muslim chaplain out of Washington DC, here in Sydney Australia on special assignment and we are having a really good time ...

Margaret Coffey: In Melbourne, 1400 young people turned up to hear this man for a different kind of confidence boost. This girl's friend went to the lecture.

Young woman: I know that he left feeling wonderful. In fact I got an SMS from him when I was in Sydney, saying he felt so inspired, he had just attended a talk by a man who was formerly a Christian and now who is a Muslim and he said he felt really fired up. I said, great, that's wonderful. I can relate to this. Speaking personally it is totally true that when we are faced with all these questions and issues and you're left waking up in the morning, saying, do I really even know what I believe in and where do I stand and what am I going to speak for on behalf of all these people?

So I suppose it's with that kind of feeling and mentality, you walk into these lectures feeling a bit even disillusioned may be and having some one up there really getting you into a flurry and feeling good about yourself, I guess some people, some people can't help but walk out and go - that's the view I am going to take, that's great, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to say to all my Christian friends you don't know what you are talking about. And that's unfortunate but I guess it might show that there is a feeling of not really knowing where they stand and somebody else has come in for them and said you can take this stance and they've said, okay, since it has made you feel so good I might adopt that as well.

Margaret Coffey: The Islamic Council and FAMSY's competition was brought here by IISCA, the organisation associated with Sheikh Mohammad Omran, and outside the Islamic councils of the various states. For entertainment value it was certainly more attractive than the sobriety of FAMSY's and the Islamic Council's platforms. It was also more explicit.

Yusuf Estes: The next one is Chapter 2, verse 256 . Usually we translate this to say there is no compulsion in religion. Right? That is another new problem you are going to have. Muslims, American Muslims, or English speaking Muslims are going to say right there in Qur'an it says I don't have to follow Islam if I don't want to. No compulsion - you can't make me do anything. I just believe in Allah. And that's it. I don't have to wear the hijab, I don't have to grow a beard, I don't have to do anything, I don't have to pray, I don't have to follow the hadith. 'Cause why? ... No compulsion in religion! Don't make do anything.

Have you heard that? I have heard that from so many of those who want to be modernist Muslims. Brother, don't tell me what to do. Allah knows what is in my heart. Yeah, he does. He sure does, and just because you know that he knows what is in your heart you think it's going to save you? It's kind of like somebody saying my banker knows what is in my bank account. That doesn't put any money in there though! Does it? It's really dumb. (Laughs)

Margaret Coffey: Yusuf Estes spoke in major venues in Sydney and Melbourne. He was advertised as offering two enthralling lectures: "Priests and Preachers Entering Islam. Why?" and "Who is going to Paradise?" The worst thing about the content of his preaching was not its ignorance but its lack of civility, both to fellow Muslims and to non-Muslims.

Yusuf Estes: When Moses was on Mount Sinai, and he was receiving revelation up there, they were down below making with their own hands a golden calf and they worshipped it and this, according to Allah, is punishable by death. Read it in the Bible. He hated it so much he compared their false worship to prostitution and whoredom - and that word is used in the Bible over and over for those who are committing illegal sex with a whore is how he compared people who worshipped other than him. This is famous throughout the Old Testament.

Now it's not real popular amongst the Christians to discuss that. Their priests don't discuss it, their ministers don't want to discuss it because obviously it would prove what? Whoops! They don't talk about it, but that's the Second Commandment, no statues of anything. If you have ever been in a Catholic Church you would be amazed at the amount of statues, idols, and pagan-looking symbols that they have around there and they say, oh, these are icons, the new word for those are icons ...

Margaret Coffey: Yusuf Estes' Australian preaching has a long shelf life as he is backed by a well organised website with audio archives.

AltMuslim podcast extract: Welcome to AltMuslim Review. This is ..

Margaret Coffey: But there are other voices out there in networked Islam proposing alternative ways of seeking a clear diagnosis and linking into alternative 'mental resources'. Here's an example. AltMuslim is now into podcasts:

AltMuslim podcast extract: .. now gone beyond condemnation is that there is a general feeling that terrorism kind of isn't our problem ....

.. I think that it is interesting because both Muslims and non-Muslims are dealing, you know are stepping into this area of blackmail before pulling out and realising it is a dead end street. You know, Muslims may or may not implicitly try to use blackmail over the Iraq war to say terrorism will happen if you continue to engage this, whereas non-Muslims and Western governments will use the blackmail of Guantanamo, civil liberties and all the things Muslims would suffer if terrorism continues, which is not fair of course to the majority of peace-loving Muslims ..

Margaret Coffey: If you would like to hear this podcast in full, you will find a link on ABC Radio National's website, along with references to all the other material you've heard on this program. Thank you to all the participants who welcomed the ABC at their gatherings.

You can find out what's coming up each week in ABC religious programs, on both radio and TV, by joining our email mailing list - it's free, and you can join via our web site, at abc.net.au/religion - just click on Mailing List.

This has been Encounter. Technical production was by Russell Thompson and I'm Margaret Coffey.

WEBLINKS

FAMSY and Hesham Mobarek

Islamic Council of Victoria and Malcolm Thomas

Dr Jamal Badawi

Anas Altikriti and the Muslim Association of Britain See also: http://informationclearinghouse.info/article9520.htm http://opendemocracy.net/content/articles/PDF/666.pdf

Yusuf Estes

AltMuslim

FURTHER INFORMATION

Professor Michael Humphrey's comments in this program are drawn from material in this article: Michael Humphrey "Australian Islam, the New Global Terrorism and the Limits of Citizenship", in Islam and the West, Shahram Akbarzadeh & Samina Yasmeen (eds.) Sydney: UNSW Press, 132-148, 2005 Professor Humphrey is the Head of the School of Sociology and Anthropology at the University of New South Wales

Articles by Abdal Hakim Murad "The Poverty of Fanaticism" "Islam's Heart of Darkness"

Islam in Australia by Abdullah Saeed (Allen and Unwin 2003)

News, commentary, information and speculation about Islam in the digital age http://virtuallyislamic.com/

"Islam in the Digital Age - E-Jihad, Online Fatwas and Cyber Islamic Environments" by Gary R. Bunt (Pluto Press, London 2003)

"Can Islam's leaders reach its radicals?"

FURTHER DISCUSSION

http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/chatham_house_2729.jsp

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/enc/stories/s1427935.htm