From: "Ken Smith" Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian Subject: Re: The questions of existence Ken: I've stayed out of this interesting thread because I'm a bit > overloaded at the moment, but one comment by Rowland made me > reconsider my isolation. Contributor: Some have an experience which they attribute directly to God, and > >> a personal interaction with God. > Rowland: Others have similar experiences which they attribute to other > >causes/entities... > C: Some believe in God because they trust the witness of others (or > >> of the bible) to God's existence. > R: Ditto of anything/anyone beyond our immediate senses... > > >(The Bible BTW doesn't set out to prove God's existence; simply assumes it - > >see Genesis 1:1) > >> C: Some believe in God because they infer the existence of a creator > >> from a universe, or other phenomena. > R: Includes the notion of a 'first cause'. (Why can't there be an infinite > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >regression of causes?). Nature? Wot about 'red in tooth and claw' - can't > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >see God there... > Ken (a university mathematician): Why not, indeed? > This is the major problem with the traditional "Five Ways" of Aquinas. > For those unacquainted with them, these were attempts to prove the > existence of God by appealing to reason. > Most of them, in effect, ruled out an infinite regression of causes, > but provided no reason for this. > > The same thing occurs in mathematics, and one of the basic axioms of > set theory is the axiom of foundation which, essentially, rules out > any such infinite regression. > If you don't explicitly include such an axiom then you can have > infinite regressions. > > And in this case you work back through a sequence of causes without > ever coming to a "first cause". > Salaam > Ken Smith > > -- > Dr Ken Smith - Christian, husband, unpaid mathematician, skeptic, ... > `The current controversy is the result of addressing improper questions > to the biblical material. Science asks how and when; religion asks why > and what does it mean.' Brent Philip Waters