Some of my *comments on the text .........they may be unsettling for some ... Another text that may tie in with this is Soren Kierkegaard's analysis of Abraham's actions in preparing to sacrifice his son in "Fear and Trembling". Mark ************************* At the time the book was written, there were already many testimonies which had given a contradictory picture of Yahweh - the picture of a God who knew no moderation in his emotions and suffered precisely from this lack of moderation. ************************* *The Old Testament portrait of God is not always that of the Loving Father seen in the New Testament. Some of the worst atrocities in the world have been done in the name of God and justified by OT verses. It is this contradictory picture of God that both puzzles and frightens me. *********************** Such a condition is only conceivable either when no reflecting consciousness is present at all, or when the capacity for reflection is very feeble and a mote or less adventitious phenomenon. A condition of this sort can only be described as amoral. ************************* * Does God think? Does God think about Him(Her)self? Is God moral or amoral? One must also ask if God is immoral! Is it possible for God to judge God? What criteria might be used? **************** . I hope to act as a voice for many who feel the same way as I do, and to give expression to the shattering emotion which the unvarnished spectacle of divine savagery and ruthlessness produces in us. **************** *The prospect of an amoral or immoral God frightens me but how else is God's actions in Job to be described? Of course, the book of Job may not be an accurate depiction of God. If it is not accurate, the possibility of God being amoral or immoral may be discounted if only based on this text. If it is accurate what stops God from doing the same to you or me? Does God change? Doesn't change mean reflection? Does change mean that God is not perfect? Can God renew Him(Her)self? Can the perfect become more perfect? ************** ...just as there is a secret tie between the wound and the weapon, so the affect corresponds to the violence of the deed that caused it. **************** *If evil comes from God, who can fix it??? There is no higher court of justice. *********** It is far better to admit the affect and submit to its violence than to try to escape it by all sorts of intellectual tricks or feet by emotional value-judgments. ************* *Questions on the problem of evil cannot be ignored by Christians. It comes up too often in discussions with nonChristians. It cannot be shelved. It cannot be hidden away. The nature of God is at the heart of both praise and worship ...and salvation. Philip Yancey has attempted to look at this area. I do not find his anwers compelling though his search for an answer is worthy. In the same manner C S Lewis' attempts leave much to be desired. It is insufficient to say that good comes out of evil and leave it in the hands of God. Auschwitz changed everything! My wife and I are currently reading a number of books by Jews on their experiences in the camps. It was through this suffering that the work of Martin Buber and Victor Frankl was forged. While useful in understanding ourselves and the value of others, their work does not adress the question "Why evil at all?" ************* ... that I may learn to know why and to what purpose Job was wounded, and what consequences have grown out of this for Yahweh as well as for man. ************* *That is my aim in rereading Job ..and in presenting it on this NG. ****************************** It is amazing to see how easily Yahweh, quite without reason, let himself be influenced by one of his sons, by a doubt-thought, and made unsure of Job's faithfulness. ******************************* * Jung poses Satan and Jesus as opposing sons (or creations) of God. This seems to me to be a better view than a duality in God (yin / yang) or a duality of God / Satan. If Satan was defeated on the cross then the ongoing evil and pain would seem to be a contradiction unless as a result of the Fall. Furthemore, the revelation that Satan will be loosed on the world after a thousand years of peace (Revelation) is likewise puzzling considering what was supposed to have happened in the crucifixion of Jesus. Why has God seemed to favour Satan in this manner? Why has Satan not been decisively dealt with at Calvary? ********************** .... that peculiar double-faced behaviour of which he had already given proof in the Garden of Eden when he pointed out the tree to the First Parents and at the same time forbid them to eat of it. In this way he anticipated the Fall which he apparently never intended. ************************ * Did God know what was to happen when the tree was created? Did God tempt Adam and Eve in the creation of the tree? The Lord's prayer contains a petition to God asking God not to lead us into temptation. The request is made of God not of Satan. Does God therefore tempt people to do evil? Or is the Lord's prayer wrong? ************************ Why, then is the experiment made at all, and a bet with the unscrupulous slanderer settled, without a stake, on the back of a powerless creature? ************************* *Why would God make a bet with Satan and use as the bait, a person? Didn't God know what Job was like bvefore the bet? Who did God have to prove anything to? Why has Satan got the ear of God? Where is Jesus (or the Holy Spirit) at this point? (This leads to further questions regarding the Trinity which I don't want to go into at the present time.) ******************** It is indeed no edifying spectacle to see how quickly Yahweh abandons his faithful servant to the evil spirit and lets him fall without compunction or pity into the abyss of physical and moral suffering. From the human point of view Yahweh's behaviour is so revolting and that one has to ask oneself whether there is not a deeper that motive hidden behind it. *********************** * In plain language God is an utter bastard to Job! Why? Does God follow any rules of justice? Is God merciful, compassionate and loving? Is God's action in the book of Job in any way demonstrationg those qualities? *********************** ... what does man possess that God does not have? Because of his littleness, puniness, and defencelessness against the Almighty, he possesses, as we have already suggested, a somewhat keener consciousness based on self-reflection: he must, in order to survive, always be mindful of his impotence. God has no need of this circumspection, for nowhere does he come up against an insuperable obstacle that would force him to hesitate and hence make him reflect on himself. Could a suspicion have grown up in God that man possesses an infinitely small yet more concentrated light than Yahweh, possesses? ********************* * Jung poses self reflection as a beginning to understanding the problem of evil. ************************* .... Job..... his servants are slaughtered, his sons and daughters are killed by whirlwind .... *************************** * Murder is murder whoever commits it ...even God. Are Job's servants and children worth nothing in the sight of God? Why are they treated in this barbaric manner? ******************* His justified complaint finds no hearing with the judge who is so much raised for his justice. Job's right is refused in order that Satan be not disturbed in his play. ******************* * Is this the action of a just God? ***************************** This is further exacerbated by the fact that Yahweh displays no compunction, remorse, or compassion, but only ruthlessness and brutality. The plea of unconsciousness is invalid, seeing at he flagrantly violates at least three of the commandments he himself gave out on Mount Sinai. **************************** * God gives no reason ... or apology .... for murdering Job's servants and children. ******************** Job's friends do everything in their power to contribute his moral torments, and instead of giving him, whom God has perfidiously abandoned, their warm-hearted support, they moralize in an all too human manner, that is, in the stupidest fashion imaginable, and "fill him with inkles." They thus' deny him even the last comfort of sympathetic participation and human understanding, so at one cannot altogether suppress the suspicion of connivance in high places. ******************** * Most of the explanations I have read about the problem of evil are no more than the ranting's of Job's friends. With friends like that, who needs enemies? ********************************* Why Job's torments and the divine wager should suddenly come to an end is not quite clear. So long as Job does not actually die, the pointless suffering could be continued indefinitely. ********************************* * This is is a horrifying prospect! What causes God to stop? *************** Without Yahweh's knowledge and contrary to his intentions, the tormented though guiltless Job had secretly been lifted up to a superior knowledge of God which God himself did not possess. Had Yahweh consulted his omniscience, Job would not have had the advantage of him. .... *************** * This again poses the problem of whether God has self reflection. **************************** Yahweh does not think of bringing this mischief-making son of his to account, nor does it ever occur to him to give Job at least the moral satisfaction of explaining his behaviour. Instead, he comes riding along on the tempest of his almightiness and thunders reproaches at the half-crushed human worm: ***************************** * God's answer to Job is a non-answer of "Might makes right! I'm God! Who are you to question?" I think it IS justifiable for a pot to ask the potter "Why did you make me in this manner and then hjave tyhe hide to blame me for my imperfections?" (Isaiah 64:8-9; Lamentations 4:2) I also know that it is contrary to what the bible says in other places like Jeremiah 18 and, more importantly from a New Testament and Christian perspective, Romans 9:19-22. Are Satan's actions sanctioned or even applauded by God? This is just a snippet of the many problems posed in the rest of the book.
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