I'm in the unusual situation of sitting at my desk on Sunday morning. I'm down with the flu'. I'm just reading "Clergy Killers" by G. Lloyd Rediger (Logos 1997). I imagine you might be familiar with it, since it would relate to your ministry with JMM.

Yes - and I lent it last week to a pastor who'd got 'the left foot of fellowship'the week before...

Assuming you are familiar, I'd value your comments as to how reflective it is of the Australian scene and church culture. It certainly adds up an awful lot to my wife and I, and we're wondering about lending it to one or two trusted confidants in our congregation.

I'd think (having skimmed rather than read it thoroughly) that a lot of it does apply here: thus the feedback I get from others too...

I would have to identify myself as in the category of "abused clergy" to which Rediger refers. During the ... years in this parish (Anglican), I've been treated and counselled through clinical depression. Abuse from within the congregation wasn't the only causative factor, but was certainly one of them. I've also shared in Renewal Retreats [with other pastors], and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that I'd now be an ex-pastor were it not for that.

You're the second to have said that about [that sort of] help in the last two days!

BTW ... I might just throw in another comment from my experience here. Rediger actually hints at it in passing. I've been much influenced _and helped_ by the Church Growth movement. But it seems to me that leading thinkers in CG need to be more aware than they are of just how widespread dysfunctionality and abuse of clergy in congregations are. That it isn't just an excuse for mediocrity employed by a few disgruntled clergy. The clear message I've got from CG is that, if you're a capable leader, with the appropriate leadership style, and using all the right strategies - then there's no decent reason why your church shouldn't be doing well. Most CG teachers acknowledge that there are other factors, but still end up saying that the pastor is the issue.

Agreed: see my article 'Church Growth and Pastoral Stress' on my homepage...

For instance, a few years ago I attended some workshops on pastoral leadership etc. run by a leading CG pastor and exponent (whom I deeply respect and admire). At one point, he said that if your church isn't going ahead, then before you conclude that there's a spiritual problem, you should have a mighty careful look at yourself first (leadership style, communication style, sense of vision, any personal insecurities, etc.) I don't disagree with all that as applicable to many and even the majority of cases. But I just wonder whether he wasn't gravely underestimating the probability that there is indeed a spiritual (or other) problem in the congregation. If Rediger is right, he undoubtedly was! At any rate, the outcome in terms of my thinking about my own ministry was to confirm my doubts about my capacity for pastoral leadership. These doubts had already been seeded and nurtured by repeated comments from some vocal church members ("CKs" I believe). To be fair to the course leader, I was in depression at the time without then realising it.

If it's ... you're referring to, I can understand where he's coming from. But he is a unique person. I used to pontificate about such things when at Blackburn Baptist, with 25 paid staff, 1500 regular attenders etc. It's not all that simple... - and can be downright discouraging for others...)

This also leaves me with the (imponderable?) question of whether some of the guys who really make CG principles work through a long ministry in a particular church would have had the same kind of result in another congregation ... mine for instance. Sometimes listening to them sharing, the answer to that question seems to be "Of course!" But I wonder - Are they naieve? or am I? or what?

One testimony: I was invited to be interim part-time pastor of a small semi-rural congregation when JMM got going. I resigned after less than a year, knowing that problems within the congregation would mean I'd be pushing it all uphill for years before anything could happen... I've often said I'd have problems either in Toorak (because of my prophetic/confrontational style about some things I hold passionately - like aspects of social justice) or a working class suburb: I'd be too impatient with them if they didn't want to think.

All that said, from my counseling experience with pastors, church growth is the leading _presenting_ issue for evangelical/Pentecostal pastors suffering burnout etc. But it has to be coupled with unfinished family-of-origin stuff.

Does that make sense?

Be encouraged! As Winston Churchill said in his second-most-famous speech: 'Boys, never, ever, ever give up!'

How about a fraternal-wide pastors and spouses' get together out your way - then 'The Marks of a Healthy Church' with all the denominations' church leaders? I think we could help with some of these issues...

A further note from the pastor:

P.S. Rowland: Your comment near the end about FOO issues interplaying with CG certainly makes sense, and accords with stuff learnt in retreats. FOO certainly contributed to my depression and some ministry problems here, and probably reduced my capacity to deal with CKs. It was a major element of the counselling I received before as well as during depression.