1. Define 'christian'

2. Anyone whose pathway to God is through the teachings of Jesus the Christ OF God.

It ISN'T what the historic time / space Jesus of Nazareth ever said and he was the Christ OF God that Christians are named after. Churchianity is not CHRISTianity. The views of the Christ OF God matter more than the views of the church invented in his name.

1. > > It is the view of EVERY Christian Church.

2. Really? Prove it! I have given evidence to the contrary. You have not bothered to read the following from the last post which I quoted as holding the same belief: - The Presbyterian minister of the Sydney church I attended pre-1972 (Presbyterian Church)

- John A T Robinson, Bishop of Woolwich, (Anglican Church 1950s)

- Bishop John Shelby Spong (Episcopalian Church 1990s)

- Dr Peter Cameron, former Principal of St Andrews College, Sydney University (Presbyterian Church 2000s)

So,according to your estimate, Presbyterian, Anglican and Episcoplian churches are "not true Christian churches". What are they then?????? Satanic covens? Zeus worshippers??

Have you ANY idea of the massive changes in the Anglican Church's Prayer Book and worship practice over the past 100 years???? - Greetings were once "The Lord BE with you" but now "The Lord IS with you" - Altars have come out from against the walls and the priests now face the congregation rather than face a crucifix on the front wall. - Kneeling is now rarely done. - Instead of the "kyrie eleison" (Lord, have mercy) a substitute prayer of thanksgiving is given. - Deleted references in the Prayer Book that suggests that weather patterns can be changed by petitiojn to God., that sickness was God's punishment for sin, that women needed to be ceremonially cleaned after chikldbirth and that God and our nation are so deeply entwined that the success of one was the will of the other.

*(All mentioned in John Shelby Spong's "Why Christianity must change or die" HarperCollins:1999)

The Anglican church of today is NOT the same as the Anglican church of 50 years ago! Does that mean that it is "not a true Christian church"????

1. > > But I would argue that if God does not 'exist' as we exist then how can there be any communication or contact between man and God?

2. "In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH Jesus the Christ OF God]

we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28

We have our being NOT in another FINITE "being" but the INFINITE God. "The ground of all being" is a philosophical / theological term that you obviously don't understand. To put it another way, we exist in God. How can that in which you exist FAIL to communicate with you and vice versa????

1. > > I have no knowledge of what biblical scholars, contemporary or otherwise, state or believe, so I can't comment on the above.

2. Maybe that is your problem. The facts that I present are easily confirmed. I have quoted from some of the leading contemporary bible scholars on the life of Jesus: - Geza Vermes, Professor Emeritus of Jewish Studies, Oxford University - John Dominic Crossan, Professor of Biblical Studies at DePaul University, Chicago.

To refute what they say one does not just state that the churches that one knows about don't teach what these scholars have devoted their lives to finding out.

Either these scholars know absolutely nothing and the average person on the street knows everything about Jesus OR maybe these scholars have something that is worth investigating. One does not become a Professor through quoting bible verses!

1. > > But you seem to be saying that the mainstream Churches, ie. their clergy, are being deliberately deceptive, presumedly to preserve their power and position.

2. Yes, that is EXACTLY what John Shelby Spong (a retired Episcoplian Bishop ... like the Anglican church) has stated repeatedly. Clergy want to keep their job. However full-time paid clergy are not needed at all. Paul evangelised the Roman Empire but still held a secular job. Local clergy have a hard time evangelising their own street let alone anywhere else.

Clergy are "surplus to requirements".

There is NOTHING that clergy do that a layperson working in a fulltime secular job cannot also do.

That scares the Hell out of clergy!