[From the aus.religion.christian newsgroup]

Dear Chris, Tony and all.

What a surprise to be told that my material was being cited in a discussion alongside heavyweights like Paul and Wolff!

I am not sure at the moment what I might add to your discussion, though I've been most impressed by its reasonable tone and all the careful reading that seems to go into it. I'd actually given up on such groups, even most of the scholarly ones, to which I used to belong because of all the flaming and unreason they seemed to foster!

The main thread of your discussion seems to centre on whether the accurate predictions that the OT prophets make serve as proof of God.

(Your discussion about the possibility of attributing most/all of the book to Amos, and hence its redaction history, seems to stem from this...)

My own view is that even if I could PROVE that biblical prophets had made astoundingly accurate advance predictions (though I don't see how anyone could prove that) that would still not convince even a doubting atheist. (After all the Nostradamus freaks claim as much.)

However, for me personally the prophets do help keep me believing.

It has always seemed to me that Camus argument is the best in the unbeliever's arsenal:

Look at the suffering around you.

Either the almighty is a wimp who won't act to change the world, or is a monster who enjoys suffering,

or isn't almighty at all.

So when I read in the prophets their scathing condemnation of human greed, cruelty and misuse of power.

When I read there and elsewhere in the Bible dreams of a world that is different (see the Dreams and Visions section in http://geocities.com/biblemission/bible/treasure.html#why).

And when I come from remembering that this is why Jesus died. THEN I can't be an atheist after all. I'm on God's side, and if that lets me side with people like Amos and Mary then I'm delighted.

God bless,

Tim _____________________________________ Dr Tim Bulkeley University of Auckland Carey Baptist College http://www.bible.gen.nz Postmodern Bible - Amos (hypertext commentary project)