From: "John " <>
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Which came first, faith or reason?
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:07:43 +1000

All human knowledge is predicated on faith, even mathematics. The noted
physicist John Barrow once quipped,

"If we define religion to be a system of thought which contains
unprovable statements, so it contains an element of faith, then Godel
has taught us that not only is mathematics a religion but it is the only
religion able to prove itself to be one."

This is not the forum to discuss the logic behind the quote, you'll have
to chase up works on Godel for that, but contrary to popular opinion the
generally accepted view of mathematics - by scientists and
mathematicians at least - is that of Plato (that mathematics is
'embedded' in reality). Looks like the wily old Greek got that wrong.

The human brain, because of its very construction, is incapable of
divining absolute truth. The truth may be out there somewhere but reason
alone will never tell us when we've found it. Hence St. Paul, "Faith is
in things unseen."

"I would believe only in a god who can dance." Nietzsche, Thus Spake
Zarathustra.

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