Subject: Re: Ecclesiastical governance (was Re: No more miracles ...)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 02:35:55 GMT
From: 
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian

In article <383e50fd.26470>,
   (St.Athanasius)
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Just one question if I may.
> You said:
> >I agree with this part of what you say [and have deliberately
> >cut the bit I disagree with to prevent needless argument].
> >Episkopos (bishop/overseer) and presbuteros (elder) are used
> >interchangably in the pastoral epistles. So you are right
> >in that the New Testament references of episkopos
> >(or the related word episkope in Acts 1:20) need not
> >(and probably do not) refer to the modern office of "bishop".
>
> I have heard this claim a thousand times and as yet seen no proof. So
> sorry I am going to call your bluff. Please provide the references in
> the Pastoral epistles that -prove- that the office of Episcopos and
> Presbuteros were interchangeable?

G'day Greg,

All uses of the words episkopos (overseer (NIV) or Bishop)
and presbuteros (elder) in the pastorals are:
elder: 1 Tim 4:14, 5:17, 5:19, Titus 1:5, 1:6
bishop/overseer: 1 Tim 3:1, 3:2, Titus 1:7

In 1 Timothy, Paul gives the qualifications of bishops and
deacons. Isn't it curious that he doesn't give qualifications of
elders if that's a separate office from bishop?

In Titus 1:5, Titus is told to "appoint elders in every town".
He begins by giving the elders' qualifications (1:6) and then
in 1:7 he switches to giving bishops' qualifications.
I think it is more likely that he is using the two terms
interchangably and that all of 1:6-9 gives the qualification
of the one office (called either elder or bishop).
It is possible that he gives the qualifications for elder
in 1:6 and for bishop in 1:7-9, but this is contextually
unlikely because, if the offices are distinct, why does 1:5
only tell Titus to appoint elders?

Maybe not watertight proof, but I think the balance of
probabality is no my side. Especially when we look through
the rest of the New Testament:

Paul's speech in Acts 20: Paul sent for the elders (20:17)
yet addresses them as bishops (20:28).

Philippians 1:1 addresses the "overseers [bishops] and deacons"
in the church in Philippi. Again, rather curious to omit the
elders  if they are an intermediate rank between the two.

1 Peter 5:1-2. Peter addresses the elders (5:1),
then in 5:2 says they "serve as overseers".
That one just about clinches it for me.

Finally, if Timothy and Titus were filling a role akin to
Bishop, why were they to appoint bishops?

So it seems to me that, at the time of
writing the New Testament, while Timothy [probably] and Titus
[certainly] were overseers of more than one church, the word
"epikopos" had not yet come to be applied to that office.

Peter Ballard