From:  (Nigel B. Mitchell)
Newsgroups: nz.soc.religion,aus.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Evidence or not ?
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:51:36 GMT

Nigel:
>> If Jesus did not exist, how did the Christian Church come into being,
>> and by whom (and why) was the New Testament written?

Tigger:
>Since none of it is claimed to be written by Jesus, that part is moot.

Not quite. The author of John claims to have been an eyewitness and
participant in the events described in the book (John 21:24). The
author of Luke claims to have written his book after researching
eyewitness accounts (Luke 1:1-4). The books that came to be part of
the Canon (ie the books considered to be Scripture by the Church) were
circulating whilst the generation that could have known Jesus were
still alive. There were other books circulating as well, but the
church chose the ones in the New testament because they were
considered to be reliable sources of information about Jesus.

>How and why? Who knows why any number of strange new religions were
>popping up in the area. The 12 needed to have a figurehead, a god-like
>being who, like most other myths about at the time, was born of a
>virgin, did miracles, and was resurrected. None of these things are
>original, so I cannot conclude that Jesus must have existed, unless the
>other gods with these attributes must also have existed.

So, we cannot say with certainty that Jesus did exist, and we cannot
say with certainty that he did not. Is that fair?

None of the Mystery religions which were 'popping up in the area'
survived more than a couple of decades. Christianity did, so in that
respect at least, it is unique. I suspect that this is due to some or
all of the following:
The universal application of the central teachings.
The strong faith of the earliest disciples.
The fact that it allowed Gentiles to enjoy the benefits of the
monotheistic and ethical advantages of Judaism, without requiring
circumcision and adherance to kosher food laws.
The fact that it arose at a time when Judaism was in a state of
political crisis.
The will and purpose of God for the world.

I believe that all of these are factors, although I acknowledge that
you will probably want to delete the last one. None of them
absoloutely require the existence of Jesus, but I cannot imagine a
plausible scenario which explains the origins of Christianity and does
not include the existence of a person called Jesus. 

>> If Jesus did exist, why are there so many contradictions,
>> discrepancies and omissions in what the authors of the New Testament
>> wrote about him?

>Because they wrote not less than 40 years after the event. Memories are
>hazy. I think that the theory that they're based on verbal stories about
>him, rather than personal experience, is borne out well by differing
>stories, eg the different genealogies.

No argument from me on that.

>> Leaving aside the question of Jesus' existence, does the New testament
>> record anything about what he allegedly said and/or did which has any
>> relevance or application to the lives of people today?

>Be nice to each other.

Almost right, Tigger. It was "love God and be nice to each other".

>I find it interesting that this was Jesus's central message, not
>"believe in me and be saved".

You could teach a few Christians a thing or two about that.

cheers

N+

Nigel B. Mitchell