From: Chris Ho-Stuart <>
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian,aus.religion
Subject: Re: If God is an omnipotent being?
Date: 15 Sep 1998 23:23:36 GMT

In aus.religion.christian Les Brown <> wrote:
>  wrote in aus.religion.christian:
> >
> >> Many Jewish and Christian theologians have taken the view that
> >> omnipotence is an artifical and ill-defined concept due to
> >> Greek philosophical influence. The bible presents God as
> >> creator of all, and beyond human understanding, and we
> >> cannot know God's limits -- but the notion of omnipotence is
> >> not in the bible.
> >>
> >
> I missed the original post so I am reply to whoever wrote the above.
> and said: "Many Jewish and Christian theologians, etc". 

It was me.

> Now, "Many Jewish"? I've not heard it spoken or seen it written by any
> Jewish theologian. The Talmud states that a leaf does not fall from a
> tree without it being decreed so in Heaven. Jewish Theology is replete
> with statements that it is G-d who controls the universe. The concept
> of omnipotence is as essential as the concept of justice. One of the
> names of G-d, El-him, denotes power and justice. To say that Jewish
> theologians find G-d's omnipotence is of "Greek influence" is not
> Jewish and in fact, having read Greek mythology, I found their gods
> quite limited. So it can be said of the Jew who would write it; that
> although he indeed may be a Jew, his theology would certainly not be
> Jewish.

Though probably not of the full stature of a theologian,  Rabbi
Harold Kushner is well known for his book "When Bad Things Happen
To Good People".  A central pillar of this book is that
omnipotence is not a useful concept applied to God.

I suspect that you are not going to appreciate as authentically
Jewish that which is not Orthodox... and I rather suspect Kushner
may be Conservative.

I think this begs the question; one could of course deny as authentic
any questioning of omnipotence; but the heretics are always there
and and important in developemnt of religious thought.

I understand from a quick perusal of the Jewish mailing list that
another sage of antiquity cited on this topic is the Ralbag, who
is apparently perceived as teaching that God's omnipotence is
limited also by human free will.

The problem of reconciling omnipotence with evil, with human free
will and with simple logical concistency have been rich sources of
debate by Jewish thinkers for a long time. Even defining the term
is fraught with difficulty. What I find interesting is that this
aspect of the debate hardly shows up in the bible: and some of the
biblical stories are suggestive of a God who struggles.

I'll add here an extract from "Omnipotence", by Edward Wierenga,
published in "The Nature of God: An Inquiry into Divine Attributes"
(Cornell Uni Press, 1989), and available on-line at
http://www.rochester.edu/College/REL/111/omnipch.html

    And in the twelfth century Moses Maimonides wrote, "that which
    is impossible has a permanent and constant property, which is
    not the result of some agent, and cannot in any way change, and
    consequently we do not ascribe to God the power of doing what
    is impossible. No thinking man denies the truth of this maxim;
    none ignore [sic] it, but such as have no idea of Logic.... It
    is impossible that God should produce a being like Himself, or
    annihilate, corporify, or change himself. The power of God is
    not assumed to extend to any of these impossibilities. "

I present this as an interesting extract in liu of anything better.
Maimonides is not denying omnipotence, but attempting to define it.

And finally, a disclaimer:
I am not now nor have I ever been Jewish, and I should not be
regarded as an authority. I do not and cannot teach what is or is
not authentic Jewish doctrine. I merely note with interest that the
topic of omnipotence is not discussed with total unanimity either
within Judaism or within Christianity.

Cheers -- Chris Ho-Stuart