Subject: Re: Especially for Nigel (and Chris Ho-Stuart): Christ the creator Date: 4 Oct 1999 22:31:29 GMT From: (Ken Smith) Organization: University of Queensland Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian A minor comment about Hebrew grammar. (Graeme Hunt) writes: >On 30 Sep 1999 05:53:04 GMT, Chris Ho-Stuart ><> wrote: >>I am interested that you use "through" rather than "by" , following >>the RSV rather than the KJV and NIV. Nigel also prefers this wording, >>whereas Graeme uses "by" rather than "through". >The two points I would make here are that a) I have already presented >what the Greek says about this and it seems quite clear that it states >that Christ was instrumental in the act of creation; b) As for Nigel, >I would have had some respect for his views, even though I disagreed >with them, if he had given some concrete evidence for them. This he >refused to do and was therefore merely stating an unsubstantiated >preference which he insisted was fact. For example, I asked him *why* >he preferred "through". He wouldn't answer. I suspect, no believe, >he couldn't. [deletions] >An example of this intransigence was when I mentioned the name >"Elohim" in Genesis chapter one where Nigel claimed it stated that the >Father was the creator (which it doesn't at all). He said Elohim was >not plural. But there is no question that is IS plural. The suffix >"im" is plural, just as with words like "seraph" (singular) and >seraphim" (plural). This is the exasperating tactic Nigel uses. He >presents no scholarly evidence, only his opinions, when it is all >boiled down, which he refuses to substantiate properly. His simplistic >references to passages of scripture without explanation is not >evidence. The word "elohim" is, grammatically, masculine plural. However it is almost invariably used with the verb in the singular - the first verse of Genesis provides the first example, and this carries on throughout Genesis 1. Despite this, the word has assorted meanings - in the plural sense it is commonly used to refer to the gods of the surrounding nations. And there are various renderings of it in Psalm 8:5 Are human beings a little lower than God? or the gods? or the angels? I am very wary of using grammatical pecularities of either Hebrew or Greek to make theological deductions. Otherwise you can get yourself into real difficulties. How do we handle Genesis 1:2 where the wind from God/Spirit of God is a rendering of ruah elohim? ruah is feminine singular; elohim is masculine plural. [rest deleted] >Graeme Hunt > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~invictus Ken Smith
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