Subject: Re: Ecclesiastical governance (was Re: No more miracles ...)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 07:23:35 GMT
From:
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian

In article <>,
   (St.Athanasius)
wrote:
> In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the One God,
> Amen. Peace and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
>
> Dear Peter,
>                    My heart soars when I see another Christian mining
> the fathers for the wisdom that they exhibited. Thank you for quoting
> them back to me.
>
> >Well I for my part have conceded that positions occupied by
> >Timothy and Titus are akin to that of Bishop, whether or
> >not they actually are called "Bishop".
>
>  Conceeded by us both, remember I was a former free churchman.

[huge snip]

G'day Greg,

I think we in agreement in large measure.
Our disagreements seem to be:
1. Whether the titles of the pastoral epistles refer to
Timothy and Titus as bishops, and whether these titles are
original; and
2. The dates of 1 Clement and The Didache.

However, this only affects the rather minor issue of
when the word "episkopos" (bishop) came to be applied
to the person overseeing several churches. Personally
I think it is a waste of time debating points 1 + 2
above to settle this rather minor point.

The more important issue is the fact that churches
always had some sort of external overseer, even though
in the earliest times (including, in my opinion,
Timothy, Titus and Clement), the title "bishop" may
also have been used of elders/presbyters.

In other words, I must concede that I cannot cite
a single example (either in the apostolic or
early post-apostolic era) of a church without an
external overseer.

[Perhaps more research on
Alexandria will yield something, but I suspect that,
if it yields anything, it will be a plurality of
external leadership rather a network of
autonomous churches.]

Which is food for thought for people like me in
independent or autonomous churches.

Peter Ballard

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